Energy usage: R134a is less efficient in cooling compared to R12. Flushed, vacuumed etc. R134a vs. R12 - Griffiths Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. And I lied about the compressor switches on this car - there are 2 switches on the drier - a temp and a pressure switch. But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. . The exact amount will vary with each car. R-12 vs R-134a Hose - Pelican Parts Forums To ensure the right charge, you must fill the new system with between 75 and 85% of the factory-set capacity for optimal cooling. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running. It would make a big difference at idle ,in traffic!! _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . . 5. El juny de 2017, el mateix grup va decidir crear un web deDoctor Who amb el mateix objectiu. Even if the system leaks, repairing the leaks and recharging it with R-12 is usually the best repair alternative. Disconnect the two hose lines to the compressor, protect the ends from getting dirty. Get to the point where I can walk without crutches2. It was later found that R-134a had a very high Global Warming Potential, or GWP, number. Very interesting! This is 11F off the FSM performance graph - vent should be around 50F. . A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. They have no moving parts. Electric fans do wear out. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. Not osmosis, but you know what I mean). R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. R-12 is no longer used or produced in many countries and remaining quantities have skyrocketed in price. Agram a retevis rt22 password i bastrop county district clerk records el material que oferim als nostres webs. In this study, without the need for major modifications to the bus air conditioner, the variation of the ejector dimensions according to different parameters has been investigated in the case of using the R1234yf, R1234ze(E), or R600a refrigerants, which may be a substitute for R134a as a refrigerant due to . You are indeed 20% out of the OEM spec for cooling. VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. R134a has an ozone depletion potential of 0, implying that it has a slight effect on the ozone layer. 4) Repeat step 2, making sure it will fit. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. Any ideas from the info above? #19. And yes - expansion valves sometimes need replacing if they are sticky - but a proper AC flush should eliminate the need for a new one if it's already in good condition. I think so. At 2000rpm, windows open, highest fan, hi pressure stabilized at 225 psi, low 25psi.Ambient 81F, vent 61F. Rich Membership Chairman Using R134a in an R12 system will cause the oil not to move with the refrigerant, causing a system failure and probably won't even cool the system well, if at all. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. Some compressor manufacturers or OEMs suggest PAG type oil for R134a. Where would I get some basic info on it, I know nothing about it. You may be just fine on oil - it depends on what compressor you have & how much oil you put in.A T/C is short for Thermocouple. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. Environmental Impact: When R134a escapes into the atmosphere, it contributes to global warming. The difference really shows up on the high side. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. Yes, the 50F diff (160-110F) on the condenser was at idle, and ambient was about 90F. J.Harris said: Or if you want to do it like they do in Mexico you can use propane, it's an excellent refrigerant but highly flammable. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. At this time you can still find R12, but, because it is no longer produced, availability is limited to current inventories and the price per pound is greater than R134a. R134a vs R12 - What is the Differences? - Rx Mechanic Though I have seen em run as cold as 12 deg F. If the thermo switch is malfunctioning. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. 4 Stars & Up & Up; 3 Stars & Up & Up; 2 Stars & Up . Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. If the water valve is not closing all the way you will have re-heating of the cabin air.The cabin blower was not exactly a powerhouse - it was rated at 200w. Edited: Sat July 14, 2007 at 10:22 PM by fonebone. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. All pre-97 XJs use systems with the same basic operating principle, although the parts do change a bit. An extra half ounce? Additionally, R134a was introduced as a replacement for R22 and R12 in high and medium-temperature refrigeration systems like domestic and commercial chillers. Comparatively, larger R134a molecules should take more space, and a smaller amount might be required. Nice to use new gadgets! PDF R134a R513A - Tecumseh Products Can I Use Automotive r134a in a Refrigerator | An Expert Guide We say generally because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. Tamb oferim en VOSC el contingut daquestes sries que no es troba doblat, com les temporades deDoctor Who de la 7 en endavant,les OVA i els especials de One Piece i molt ms. Neuro spine Super Speciality Clinic - Above Apollo Pharmacy, Bangarpet Circle, Kolar - Bangarpet Road, Kolar Town. This can be very very expensive. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. Also the new quick connect fittings for the high & low side. By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. Sense ells no existirem. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. Could that be screwing up the systems performance?Anyway, when I installed the system, the new TXV (is that short for expansion valve?) I mean, really a lot. What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. Thanks so much Bohica - you've save me many more hours of fruitless speculation. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. R12, on the other hand, has an ozone depletion potential of 1, implying that it can damage the ozone layer. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Jun 17, 2011. I don't know where it is getting the switch off command, or why the vent temp drops steadily. If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve With the A/c off hi and lo were both at 105psi. Expansion Valve for R134a? | Team Chevelle Statisicaly your friend was lucky. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. But R22 is almost equally damaging. Right now you know you have a bit too much, but with a CR4P compressor this is an insurance policy. I bought a relay to put on it connected to the compressor clutch. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. 4) Inconsistent Airflow. It is also used in automotive car conditioning and the plastic industry. R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. Expansion Valve. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the fabricator and impossible for the serviceman. I'm not sure. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. I have some experience with auto a/c but not too much. R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the amount of R134a used. Usually, mechanics charge around $200 for conversion. So to keep things simple and to avoid controversy and politics we have R134a. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve This is because R134a. The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. (The .133 is the 300D Turbo).So, what does your compressor look like?B. PDF Experimental analysis of Thermostatic expansion valve, Constant If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? #4. The best replacement for R134a is R1234yf, while R12 refrigerant replacement was R134a. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. Expansion valves are an active device, they regulate the flow of refrigerant to the evaporator depending on evaporator temperature. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Look at where the lines will end up. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. The ozone depletion potential of a chemical is a factor that shows the level of degradation itll cause to the ozone layer that surrounds and secures the earth from harmful radiation. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. El maig de 2016, un grup damics van crear un lloc web deOne Piece amb lobjectiu doferir la srie doblada en catal de forma gratuta i crear una comunitat que inclogus informaci, notcies i ms. If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. Then when it is switched off for a few minutes and then back on, the air cools again. A lower GWP alternative to R-134a had to be found and thus we have the new 1234yf. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. If 50 degrees across the cond. By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. Hope this helps. Fitting a PF condensor is not rocket science, but it requires some planning. It will work and there will be very little, in any difference in performance.As Chick stated, the difference is only the gas used in the sensor tube. I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. Vent temperatures slowly go down to around 50F with hi speed driving. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. gital control scheme. You may need to adjust the valve in a bit to get desired superheat. Biggest you can fit in there is best. Recomanem consultar les pgines web de Xarxa Catal per veure tota la nostra oferta. Its highest value is 1. These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? But with an R4, better too much than too little.3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12.4) The airflow across the condensor is crucial to good performance. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. I'm having the same concern. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Once you have replaced the OEM condensor with a PF unit, you will need to make custom hoses to mate with your OEM system. You'll want the expansion valve matched to whatever refrigerant you're using. 3) A/C Compressor Always On. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. Are you sure you have an R4? The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. Just had knee surgery yesterday, so I"M not exactly hopping around too well. Bohica, I appreciate your help with this. I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. System has been working fine for a year. Some cars have both an engine coolant temp switch & a refrigerant temp switch, others only the refrigerant switch. R404a is a zeotropic blend with a temp glide , because of the mixture of 2 or more refrigerants. With R-12, 30 is 28.4psi and 40 is 36.9psi, for a difference of 8.5psi. So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. Is that reasonable?Vent airflow is good, I think. Since there is only about a 10% difference between R-12 and R-134a, the expansion valve being self-compensating really doesn't make that much difference. Also called the orifice tube. I'm thinking I might have put too much oil in the system - everywhere i read had a different amount - the manufacturer of the compressor, the MB factory service manual, online forums. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. Whenever its exposed to the environment, it changes to a gas. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. AC R12 to R134A Conversion | MR2 Owners Club Forum However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. Not going to mess up your 'do, but you can feel it. My turn to LOL - greasiesel! Have a look in the FAQ Section, and look for "Fan clutches & testing them". Just because the radiator does not boil people assume that the cooling system is ok. BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. 5. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Besides R134a there are some other refrigerants that are approved to replace R12 and there is a long list of refrigerants that are not approved. I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . Bad Car A/C Expansion Valve Symptoms. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. A Comparison Study of the Thermal Performance of R12 and R134a According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. . We ALWAYS want to know the pressure readings! R12 to 134A conversion. | Allpar Forums The car never overheats, if that has any import. How dumb!I will jumper the aux fan and redo the test. Then I'll put the ball valve in on the coolant and test it and see what we have.

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